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UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed

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Jun 6, 2007, 3:45pm





UFO, ALIEN, DISCLOSURE, SERPO, SEINU, PROJECT-CAMELOT - Open Minds Forum - WWW.OpenMindsForum.com :: General :: UFO/ Alien / Exobiology :: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
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Double_Nought_Spy
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #1995 on Today at 4:52am

I think the most interesting development of the last few hours is the police investigation. A two square mile town is very small. It sounds like a typical small town, where everybody knows what everybody else is up to, or at least thinks they do. I don't think it will take the police long to locate those utility poles, near the home of a mechanical engineer with a daughter soon to be wed. Assuming these all actually exist. I think I'll stay tuned. *Damn* this place!
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #1996 on Today at 4:58am


Today at 4:45am, spf33 wrote:

Today at 4:34am, TheShadow wrote:

Would that contradict what Raj said about not having the memory stick and having to get it from his in laws (a 3 hour round trip)?



someone with a fresher brain than i needs to figure out the logic behind the exif dates and xmp dates...




A few simple questions. What date were the pics taken? What date were the pics uploaded to flikr? Id look myself but rajs page is gone and I am too lazy to go look around?
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #1997 on Today at 5:48am

Some random thoughts:

1. Photoshop: a friend of mine bought a laptop a while ago, with some version of Adobe Photoshop pre-installed. (I think 'Elements' but I'd have to check with him). Anyway, whenever he connects his camera to the laptop, Photoshop is launched automatically.
So the Photoshop tags are not necessarily a smoking gun.

2. Projection: it is a fallacy to use projection to legitimate or discredit another person's actions. Saying, 'it can't be real because he didn't call 911, because that's what I would do' is a case of projection.
With that kind of reasoning, then all the news paper reports of rape, murder, robberies must be made up, too, because, hey, I wouldn't do those things. You wouldn't do those things. In fact, nobody I know would do those things...

3. Burden of proof: CGI does not reverse the burden of proof. It undermines the validity of images as proof, but does not reverse the burden of proof. If somebody says: "I've seen something weird, and I've taken a picture of it," then it is up to the people who claim it's a hoax, to prove that it is. Don't get me wrong. We may soon reach a point where images will no longer be considered sufficient proof, but that still doesn't reverse the burden of proof.

4. Repeating assumptions does not make them any more real.

Having said all of that, whatever the outcome of this, we've shown that it's possible to already achieve impressive results by synergizing, by analysing from different angles...

Keep up the good work!
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #1998 on Today at 6:26am

Off Topic - NEWS FLASH!!!
Premier Preliminary Report of an historical ET incident.

Gate 3

The people reporting this are legit. Anonymous = Retired DIA, Chief of Security, Area 51.

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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #1999 on Today at 7:13am

Please excuse that I don't know how to copy over the posts that I wish to comment on. I will get it figured out, hopefully.

I just wanted to say that I agree with Garuda. Adobe Photoshop comes pre-installed, or it did on my PC. When I transfer pics from my digital camera I get a number of programs to choose from to use. Photoshop does the most efficient job as far as presentation and storing.

I further agree that in any investigation one can't judge the validity by ground rules of 'they didn't do it this or that way.' Each person reacts differently to an unusual happening. When a person who does go public and reports a sighting is pounced on, deluged with questions which are mixed with claims 'this is a hoax' it doesn't allow that person much incentive to present his/her case in a cordial way. One can't prove a negative and has no reason to do so. After all if their sighting happened as they said and they've presented their evidence (in this case photos) and the investigators are saying the photos are hoaxed...why would they spend time arguing about it? I surely wouldn't. IF the photos are proved to be hoaxed then the investigators don't need the presenter of the pics to say anything at all, since the case has been solved. As long as there are questions tho, the presenter must be treated with respect and not overwhelmed with adversity mixed with questions.

No one but Raj, Chad, Lake Tahoe wife, Seqouia report, or the Alabama sighting gentleman knows what they have to lose by coming forward and being subjected to an interrogation. They certainly have nothing to gain by doing so. They know what they witnessed...or didn't witness. Personally, I believe the gentleman from Alabama has more to offer then does Chad or Raj. He has given more 'particulars' then have the others. The craft he claims to have filmed looks like the utility version of Chad and Raj's images.

To Double Nought Spy, we sincerely must hope that the Capitola Police do not Misuse their powers in the way you suggested. Should they track down a mechanical engineer with a daughter soon to wed, whose future son-in-law posted some pics on the Internet and invade their privacy then there will be no one who shall feel comfortable sharing pics. Under the present law they are not allowed to do such as this.

Just my thoughts.
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2000 on Today at 8:04am

1. Re the Chief's comments - were based on my sending him the articles I wrote for American Chronicle. I think he is referring to the article.

2. I have heard from Raj

He has only just discovered what's happened to his account at flckr - he has written to them but got no response. He has also been getting late night callers at his home.

He says he is going to read the forum and catch up.

Please, try to refrain form posting whatever your 'gut reactions' are and let's keep this investigation going with a calm rational head - it may be slower that way, but it is more thorough.
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2001 on Today at 9:42am


Today at 2:31am, sqt wrote:

Today at 2:24am, spf33 wrote:



ps does add metadata this way, but it depends on how you go about it.

if you strictly use ps to copy images from the memory stick to your hard drive, then no xmp info is added.

but if you import the image and just view it in photoshop and then file>save as a jpg the metadata is added, similiar to what's in rajman1977's.

also, if you do any editing to the imported image and then save it, the xmp info changes.

and i'm not seeing those subtle changes in rajmans.

soooo...what i thought might be a smoking gun, may in fact bolster the opinion that rajmans photos are legit.

i need to do some more tests with importing data off my cam and seeing what changes can be made to the xmp data...

i'm freakin' tired, i feel like i've been running a mental marathon for 3 weeks...





Good points. I think the other thing to keep in mind (though as nothing more than circumstantial evidence so far) is that the software that apparently left the footprint in the pics is Photoshop CS (as opposed to Photoshop Elements, for example), a program intended for professional photographers which retails for over $600.

Just something to mull on... :) ;)
No kidding! I had to sell one of my children just to get it ;) (JUST KIDDING!)

You can pirate it from a great many places. If you are not a graphic professional or a mighty rich person then you shouldn't have Photoshop CS. If you do, then it is most likely that you are either a student with a deep student discount. Or a pirate.
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2002 on Today at 10:02am


Today at 2:31am, regence wrote:
The Photoshop metadata is very interesting. Do people really use Photoshop to manage photo collections? I thought everyone used apps like iPhoto or Picasa? It seems pretty unlikely to me in this scenario in any event, because the digicam didn't belong to the person who posted these photo's as far as we know.

'Raj' stated he took the photo's on his fiance's parents digicam, and he didn't have the memory card. Therefore I don't see how he would have loaded the photo's from the camera into Photoshop as this would require posession of the card. Is it likely that his fiance's parents have Photoshop CS2?


Well I actually use Photoshop CS2 to scan in all my images. As for digicams I use acdsee to transfer the images. I assume it is not uncommon for a person to use this software to transfer stuff from a digital camera.

By the way most digicams bring their own (crappy) software to load images off the camera. But since the camera is more than 5 years old, I expect that the original software was lost a long time ago. Every time I ask my customers to produce the software cd's to their printers and webcams they never seem to have it, or it was thrown away.

Here is the interesting part in the timeline of events. Raj takes the images on 05/16/07 and creates a flickr account on the same day.

He doesn't load them into the flickr account till four days later on 05/20/07. Why the four day wait? He also created/modified his yahoo email account on 05/20/07. I assume it [speculation] was created for the sole purpose of the flikr photo's.

Anyone know when the craigs list post was made?

Could it be that he needed to load them off the camera and there was some distance involved? Could it be that he needed to download or buy the CS2 software to load the images off the camera? Where did he load them off at (his home or his fiances home?)

The only way to determine some answers is to ask Raj or to wait for spf33 to be in shape to test a few dozen scenarios to see what fly's and what doesn't as a possible explaination.


Jun 4, 2007, 11:14pm, fore wrote:
Here is a mirror of the Third Sightings photo's (THANKS SPF33!)
http://www.divshare.com/download/838310-91a

And the meta-tags ripped from the originals.

http://www.divshare.com/download/838348-fc0

One thing that sticks out immediately is the use of photoshop CS2 at some point. I wonder if Flickr uses CS2 to downsize their images (a big fat no comes to mind).
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2003 on Today at 10:48am

Dont have much time to listen or read last posts here.But there's a new podcast with Linda over at Mysterious Universe.Got no idea if its about this craft..just letting u guys know.
Grts
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2004 on Today at 1:13pm


Today at 5:48am, garuda wrote:
Some random thoughts:

1. Photoshop: a friend of mine bought a laptop a while ago, with some version of Adobe Photoshop pre-installed. (I think 'Elements' but I'd have to check with him). Anyway, whenever he connects his camera to the laptop, Photoshop is launched automatically.
So the Photoshop tags are not necessarily a smoking gun.

2. Projection: it is a fallacy to use projection to legitimate or discredit another person's actions. Saying, 'it can't be real because he didn't call 911, because that's what I would do' is a case of projection.
With that kind of reasoning, then all the news paper reports of rape, murder, robberies must be made up, too, because, hey, I wouldn't do those things. You wouldn't do those things. In fact, nobody I know would do those things...

3. Burden of proof: CGI does not reverse the burden of proof. It undermines the validity of images as proof, but does not reverse the burden of proof. If somebody says: "I've seen something weird, and I've taken a picture of it," then it is up to the people who claim it's a hoax, to prove that it is. Don't get me wrong. We may soon reach a point where images will no longer be considered sufficient proof, but that still doesn't reverse the burden of proof.

4. Repeating assumptions does not make them any more real.

Having said all of that, whatever the outcome of this, we've shown that it's possible to already achieve impressive results by synergizing, by analysing from different angles...

Keep up the good work!



Where did you get the idea that the burden of proof is on sane people who do not believe bs stories? You have it backwards. You have a lot of company on the web. The renewable energy forums are plagued with people posting nutball free energy ideas they dreamed up. When it is politely pointed out that the plans are nothing but a lot of nonsense, the posters get all indignant and say Prove Me Wrong. That's not how it works. If you claim to have invented a perpetual motion machine, then it is your job to prove it. If you claim to have visited the planet Bozon and have some silly pictures, it is not up to everyone else to prove you need professional help.
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2005 on Today at 1:25pm


Today at 10:02am, fore wrote:

The only way to determine some answers is to ask Raj or to wait for spf33 to be in shape to test a few dozen scenarios to see what fly's and what doesn't as a possible explaination.


oh good. only a few dozen? whew, gonna be a light day...

admin, ask raj how he thinks his flickr account was compromised. hacked, social engineering\phishing...

i asked flickr directly if it was the same ip address that logged into rajman1977's account and deleted everything as the ip that created it...they respond to that question by saying;

"...Please let us know if you have any
questions about how to use the site, or let "rajman1977"
know that he can contact us directly for help accessing his
account."


that's an interesting way to phrase it.

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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2006 on Today at 1:38pm

Well, it will be good for Raj to check in with Detective Gonzales and fill him in on what he saw. I wonder how those who have been calling him late at night tracked him down?

I hope Gonzales will keep us posted. I find it interesting that he says it is doubtful that something like that would have gone unreported.

I wonder how the date of 5/16 got attached to the Raj photos, when the Craigslist entry, Flickr uploads all happened on 5/20? The data on the image files also indicates that the photos were created on 5/20, correct? I went back through, but couldn't find where the 5/16 date came from.
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2007 on Today at 1:48pm


Today at 1:38pm, whoopeddog wrote:
Well, it will be good for Raj to check in with Detective Gonzales and fill him in on what he saw. I wonder if Gonzales will report back to this forum?

I wonder how the date of 5/16 got attached to the Raj photos, when the Craigslist entry, Flickr uploads all happened on 5/20? The data on the image files also indicates that the photos were created on 5/20, correct? I went back through, but couldn't find where the 5/16 date came from.


the photos were taken on the 16th, according to the exif data.
and passed thru photoshop on the 20th according the the xmp data,
shortly before uploading them to flickr on the 20th-this time stamp is now gone as the flickr account has been deleted...unless someone saved the pages or screenshots.

@fore - where did you get the flickr account was created on the 16th?
fairly sure that was on the 20th.
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2008 on Today at 1:53pm

From looking at the calendar that used to be there. I will look up my dead links of when the account was made. (not that it will help much now).

Never mind you were right! I must have confused myself after staring at that darn page for so long wondering what was going on, LOL.

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(Mastery is shown by the ability to be succinct). -- Garuda
Last I checked, balls were meant as counterweights to your brain. Are you balanced? -- Fore
Sometimes in the greatest of men, the faults are the greatest. --Fore
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 Re: UFO -'best yet'? up close and detailed
Reply #2009 on Today at 2:04pm

i managed to pull old flickr pages out of my browser cache, but not the detail page that showed when the photos were uploaded to flickr.

put your browser into offline mode and browse your history to check for old pages.

also, i think the porn image was used to guarantee that the account would be deleted quickly by flickr staff.
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